首页 > 美国 > 美国网友评论:中国超导托卡马克装置稳态运行时间超过100秒 [美国媒体]

美国网友评论:中国超导托卡马克装置稳态运行时间超过100秒 [美国媒体]

五毛网 美国 2017年07月20日 来源:五毛网

来源:龙腾网  译者:翻译加工厂

原文地址:https://www.nextbigfuture.com


Scientists in China raised them have set a world record by achieving 101.2 seconds of steady-state H-mode operation of the tokamak an experimental device designed to harness the energy of fusion.


中国科学家的托卡马克实验装置实现了高达101.2秒的稳态高约束运行. 这创造了世界记录.这个装置是设计出来用以约束核聚变的能量的.


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The milestone meant China’s Experimental Advanced Superconducting Tokamak (EAST) dubbed “artificial sun” becoming the world’s first tokamak device to achieve the 100-second level Hefei Institute of Physical Science under the Chinese Academy of Sciences said Wednesday.


周三 中科院合肥物理科学研究院宣称,这是一个里程碑式的突破.这标志着中国的"全超导托卡马克实验装置(EAST东方超环)"也被称为"人造太阳的"装置成为世界首个运行时间达到百秒量级的托卡马克装置。


Last year the EAST team in Hefei capital of Anhui Province created a record by achieving over 60 seconds of steady-state long-pulse H-mode discharge of the device.


去年这个位于安徽省会合肥的东方超环团队创造了一个记录  他们实现了该装置的超过60秒的稳态长脉冲高约束放电.


EAST’s steady-state H-mode operation has provided important experimental support for the operation of International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) a large international scientific project project.


东方超环的稳态高约束运行为国际热核聚变实验堆计划(ITER)提供了重要的实验支撑.该计划是一个大型的国际科学项目.



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美国网友评论:

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johitsnotrocketscience

3 day(s) ago

Meanwhile here in America we are playing with windmills and solar panels and have just milliseconds of continuous fusion.


与此同时 在我们美国 我们却正在摆弄风车和太阳能电池板。并且我们只实现了几毫秒的持续性核聚变的实验。



Zvi Ben YosefFuturist in reply tojohitsnotrocketsciencefMeanwhile here in America we...more » 3 day(s) ago

In the first half of 2016 16.9% of electricity in the USA came from wind and solar.


在2016年上半年,美国16.9%的电力来自风能和太阳能。



China aims to get 20 percent of its energy from renewable sources by 2030 and it recently announced it would spend $360 billion on the effort in just the next three years.


中国的目标是,在2030年之前,从可再生能源中获得20% 的能源 并且最近宣布将在未来三年内在这方面投入3600亿美元的资金。



Wind Wave and Solar are clean practical and economical and they are available today not in the ever receding distant future.


风能和太阳能是完全实用和经济的,它们现在就可以被利用,而不需要等到遥远的未来。



CombinatoricsNBF Elder in reply tojohitsnotrocketsciencefMeanwhile here in America we...more » 3 day(s) ago

Only if you look at publicly funded fusion.


只有你看到政府资助核聚变项目的时候。(回答第一条评论)



Tri-Alpha

Lawrenceville Plasma Physics

Helion


劳伦斯维尔等离子体物理学

α粒子



Alt fusion is doing good work.


人为的核聚变做的很好



Jason JappyNewcomer4 day(s) ago

well from micro second to seconds + this is going somewhere fast keep on it next will be 101 hours


从微秒到秒,这东西发展的真快啊,继续努力,下一个目标将是101小时!



sebtalResident Expert in reply toJason Jappyfwell from micro second to sec...more » 3 day(s) ago

I think you may be confusing pulse length with confinement time.


我觉得你可能把脉冲持续时间和约束时间搞混了。


Think of a leaky bucket being filled with a tap pouring in particles and energy.


想象一个漏水的水桶,桶的上方有一个水龙头正释放粒子和能量。


Confinement time for either particles or energy is how long it takes for a volume equivalent of that of the bucket to leak out. These are typically in milliseconds but for the larger machines are around a second or so.


对粒子和能量来说约束时间就是将一定当量的(粒子和能量)泄露所需要的时间(好比一个桶中的水漏光)。这一般发生几毫秒内,但是如果有一个足够大的机器就可以将时间延长到一秒以上。


Pulse length is more like how long you can keep the tap on for.


脉冲长度更像是你可以保持这个水龙头开放的时间(一个脉冲持续的最大周期)。


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Just an Average GuyMember4 day(s) ago

I have wondered what would happen if they connected their AI neural nets to these things to see if the AI could learn to control them any better.


我很好奇如果他们把人工智能网络连接到这些东西上会发生什么,看看人工智能是否能够学会更好的控制他们。


Hudson HawkFuturist in reply toJust an Average GuyfI have wondered what would hap...more » 3 day(s) ago

Active control is used to supress certain instabilities especially vdes but also other things I think. I don't think machine learning is necessary though.


我认为主动控制被用于抑制某些不稳定因素,尤其是vdes(不太清楚是啥)和其他的一些东西。尽管我不认为机器学习是必要的。


I think neural networks have been looked at to detect the onset of disruption so that they can snuff the plasma out before any damage is done.


但是神经网络可以用于确定出现中断的地方,以便在造成任何损坏之前将等离子吸出。



EduardoRGFuturist4 day(s) ago

I wonder why if no body can make fusion work at least more than a 100 seconds what is going to be the difference in making it bigger with ITER ?? Does ITER has something better or different that will make fusion inside the reactor last forever. I know ITER is only for research but will size make any difference ?? I think no body will make a reactor for commercial purposes (like feeding a city's energy) if only last some second or minutes or even a few hours. It needs to work constantly.


我想知道,既然之前没人可以让聚变反应持续至少100秒,那将ITER的规模放大会有怎样的差别。ITER是否有更好或不同之处可以让反应永远持续下去?我知道ITER仅仅是为了科研,那么规模的大小是否最为关键。我认为反应堆仅能工作几秒或几分钟甚至几个小时的情况下,是无法作为商业用途的(例如为一座城市提供能源)。它需要可以持续的工作下去。



sebtalResident Expert in reply toEduardoRGfI wonder why if no body can m...more » 4 day(s) ago

The petrol in your car's engine doesn't burn continuously.

Tokamaks can run with pulses. As long as the time between shots is short enough no problem.

Obviously it's better if they can run continuously - it reduces thermal and mechanical stresses associated with startup and collapse of the plasma.

ITER is being made larger to increase performance not increase pulse length. A parameter often referred to that gets confused with pulses length is confinement time. Confinement time refers to the time taken for all the stored energy to be lost. But the plasma is being heated so really it's a measure of how "leaky" the confinement scheme is not how long you can sustain it.


你的汽车中的汽油并不是持续燃烧的。

托卡马克装置是以脉冲的形式工作的。只要在每次脉冲之间的时间间隔足够小就没有问题。

当然如果能持续工作的话会更好 - 这样能降低与等离子体的激发和消耗时出现的热量与机械应力。

ITER造的更大是为了提高性能而不是延长脉冲时长。一个经常和脉冲时间弄混淆的参数是约束时长。约束时长反映了储存能量的流失所花费的时间。但是等离子体是炽热的,所以实际上它是衡量约束模式所能释放的能量的参数,而不是持续时间。



Elphaba ThroppNewcomer in reply toEduardoRGfI wonder why if no body can m...more » 4 day(s) ago

Large size is expected to make the plasma more stable in theory.


理论上规模越大等离子体就越稳定。



James BoweryResident Thinker4 day(s) ago

The Tokamak is sort of like someone's joke that got taken seriously and then got seriously out of hand.

jimbowery.blogspot.com/2017/07/fusion-energy-prize-awards.html


托卡马克就像被认真对待的笑话,严重地脱离控制。



Hudson HawkFuturist in reply toJames BoweryfThe Tokamak is sort of like so...more » 4 day(s) ago

Why exactly is tokamak a joke? (aside from what some guy like bussard says who is trying to milk the government for grant money)


为什么说托卡马克是一个笑话?(除了一些像Bussard说的正在试图向政府来申请拨款的人))



James BoweryResident Thinker in reply toHudson HawkfWhy exactly is tokamak a joke?...more » 4 day(s) ago

Grant money? Can you read?

12/5000


拨款?你识字么?



Hudson HawkFuturist in reply toJames BoweryfGrant money? Can you read? 4 day(s) ago

I can't read something that long no.

But it sure is about grant money. I got that from 20 seconds of skimming over it - a scientist communicating with congress members yep that's about grant money and funding.


太长的东西我没细看。


但是肯定是和拨款有关。我用20秒大概看了下——一名科学教和国会议员交流,所以这肯定和拨款以及经费相关。


And why is tokamak a joke? What exactly won't work about it from where you are sitting?


还有为何说托卡马克是个笑话?从你的立场来说一下问题是处在什么地方?



CombinatoricsNBF Elder in reply toHudson HawkfI can't read something that lo...more » 3 day(s) ago

Tokamaks are kind of a joke because even if they produced energy they would be expensive compared to basically every other source of energy.


托卡马克即使能生产能源,但相比所有其他能源来说都更贵。这就是为什么说它是一个笑话的原因。


So even if the science is worked out then they will fail because they are too involved engineering wise.

所以就算是在科学上它是管用的,但是在工程学上他们还是失败。


Thinking about molten salt reactors and other water reactors it dawned on me that you can run a nuclear reactor with 1950s levels of technology. No real automation needed. They are much simpler to build compared to a tokamak.


想一下熔盐反应堆和其它水反应堆,我开始明白你可以用二十世纪五十年代的技术运营一座核反应堆。自动化并不是真正需要的。建造这样的反应堆比起托卡马克要容易的多。



James BoweryResident Thinker in reply toHudson HawkfI can't read something that lo...more » 3 day(s) ago

Was the first paragraph too long? Here it is:


第一段太长了? 请看:


"The following lixs are to scanned images of a 1995 legislative proposal sent by Robert W. Bussard one of the founders of the US fusion energy program to Congress suggesting that the fusion energy program be replaced by a system of prize awards for timely achievement of specific technical milestones."


以下文件是扫描图像,由Robert W. Bussard提出的1995年立法草案,他是美国聚变能源计划的创始人之一。该法案建议将聚变能源计划改为一个奖励制度,在及时达到特定的技术里程碑时进行奖励“。


Bussard was looking for "grant" money the way Burt Rutan was looking for "grant" money from the X-Prize or Lindberg from the Orteig prize.  

Virga MilioNewcomer in reply toJames BoweryfWas the first paragraph too lo...more » 3 day(s) ago

What exactly is the problem with this? If you want progress you need money to fund it and if that progress is uncertain and could take decades then nobody in business will invest because they want to see tangible returns on their investment. Government can step in and nurture technological progress through grants until the tech becomes robust enough that private capital will seek it.


Bussard当时就是为了获得拨款,就像Burt Rutan想从X-Prize 奖获得拨款以及Lindberg 想从Orteig 奖获得拨款一样。

这有什么问题么?如果你想要有进展就得提供资金。如果进展不确定,或者需要花费数十年的时间,这样就没有人来做商业投资了。因为他们想看到投资有真金白银的回报。政府可以介入并通过拨款来发展技术,直到技术变的足够成熟。这时私有资本就可以来投资了。

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