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“数学无用”——美国人正在对大学失去信心 [美国网评]

五毛网 美国 2017年09月11日 来源:龙腾网

据《华尔街日报》和美国全国广播公司一项最新调查显示,美国人正在失去对大学学位价值的信心——大多数年轻人、男性和农村居民称大学不值得花这么多钱。美国网友:大学是企业,为了保持人数和资金流动,他们降低了标准,以至于任何签署学生贷款协议的白痴都可以上大学。

                                        
"The Math Doesn't Work" - Americans Are Losing Faith In College

“数学没用”——美国人正在对大学失去信心

One of the hallmarks of a successful society is the widespread belief that education is a key to success.

一个成功社会的标志之一就是人们普遍相信教育是成功的关键。

For that to be true there have to be:

而要使人们相信这一点,就必须:

1) enough jobs farther up the food chain to make four more years of studying worthwhile, and

1、有足够多的工作机会,使四年的学习物有所值

2) schools that are good and cheap enough to make the equation work.

2、学校足够便宜、足够好。

The US is losing both:

而美国正丧失这两点。

(Wall Street Journal) – Americans are losing faith in the value of a college degree, with majorities of young adults, men and rural residents saying college isn’t worth the cost, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey shows.

据《华尔街日报》和美国全国广播公司一项最新调查显示,美国人正在失去对大学学位价值的信心——大多数年轻人、男性和农村居民称大学不值得花这么多钱。

The findings reflect an increase in public skepticism of higher education from just four years ago and highlight a growing divide in opinion falling along gender, educational, regional and partisan lines. They also carry political implications for universities, already under public pressure to rein in their costs and adjust curricula after decades of sharp tuition increases.

调查结果反映了从四年前开始,公众对高等教育的怀疑日益增加,并凸显了不同性别、教育程度、地区和党派之间的意见分歧越来越大。这些看法也会给大学施加政治影响,大学已经遭到了公众压力,要求他们控制费用,并且在学费几十年来大幅上涨之后调整课程。

Overall, a slim plurality of Americans, 49%, believes earning a four-year degree will lead to a good job and higher lifetime earnings, compared with 47% who don’t, according to the poll of 1,200 people taken Aug. 5-9. That two-point margin narrowed from 13 points when the same question was asked four years earlier.

根据8月5日至9日对1200名受访者的调查,总体而言,有49%的美国人认为,四年本科教育会带来一个好工作以及更高的终身收入,而47%的人则不然。认同者仅仅比不认同者多2%,而四年前这两者间的差距是13%。

The shift was almost entirely due to growing skepticism among Americans without four-year degrees—those who never enrolled in college, who took only some classes or who earned a two-year degree. Four years ago, that group used to split almost evenly on the question of whether college was worth the cost. Now, skeptics outnumber believers by a double-digit margin.

可以说,这个变化完全是因为那些未获得四年本科学历的群体——那些只获得两年大专学历、或只学过部分课程,以及从未上过大学的人。四年前,这个群体对“大学花费是否值得”这个问题的态度几乎是平分的。而现在,怀疑者的比例比相信者高两位数。

Conversely, opinion among college graduates is almost identical to that of four years ago, with 63% saying college is worth the cost versus 31% who say it isn’t.

相反,大学毕业生的观点与四年前几乎完全相同,63%的人认为大学是值得的,31%的人认为不值得。(图片解释:绿色为认为值得,红色为认为不值得,左边项目从上至下为所有性别、男性、女性、18~34岁、35~64岁、65岁以上、本科学历以下、本科或以上学历;黑线为2013年的调查结果)

Big shifts occurred within several groups. While women by a large margin still have faith in a four-year degree, opinion among men swung significantly. Four years ago, men by a 12-point margin saw college as worth the cost. Now, they say it is not worth it, by a 10-point margin.

一些群体的态度改变很大。女性很大程度上仍然信任四年本科学历,但男性的观点显著改变了。四年前,认为大学学费是值得的男性比认为不值得的多12%。而如今,认为不值得的反倒比值得的多10%。

Likewise, among Americans 18 to 34 years old, skeptics outnumber believers 57% to 39%, almost a mirror image from four years earlier.

同样,在18到34岁的美国人当中,怀疑着与支持者的比例是57%比39%,几乎与四年前翻了过来。

Today, Democrats, urban residents and Americans who consider themselves middle- and upper-class generally believe college is worth it; Republicans, rural residents and people who identify themselves as poor or working-class Americans don’t.

如今,民主党人、城市居民和认为自己是中上层阶级的美国人普遍认为大学是值得的;共和党人、农村居民和那些自认为是穷人或工薪阶层的人不认同。

Research shows that college graduates, on average, fare far better economically than those without a degree. For example, the unemployment rate is 2.7% among college graduates, compared with 5.1% among high school graduates who never attended college, and Labor Department research shows that bachelor’s degree recipients earn higher salaries than those who never went to college. But the wage premium of getting a degree has flattened in recent years, Federal Reserve research shows.

研究表明,平均而论,大学毕业生的经济状况要远远好于无学位者。例如,大学毕业生的失业率为2.7%,而高中毕业生的失业率为5.1%。美国劳工部的研究显示,本科生的工资比非本科生高。但美联储的研究显示,近年来,学位带来的工资优势已经没那么明显了。

Student debt has surged to $1.3 trillion, and millions of Americans have fallen behind on student-loan payments.

学生债务已飙升至1.3万亿美元,拖欠助学贷款的美国人有数百万之众。

“Costs have gone up considerably to the point that I think there are a number of people who maybe rightfully say, ‘I’m not in the league of Harvard and maybe not even in the league of really good state schools,’” said Doug Webber, a Temple University econimics professor. Many of those Americans are concluding that paying high tuition at less-prestigious schools isn’t worth it.

坦普尔大学经济学教授Doug Webber 说:“学校费大幅上升,我认为有很多人可能会说,‘我上的又不是常春藤,甚至可能不是好的州立学校,为什么要花这么多钱?’”这些人中的大部分认为,为不那么有名的学校支付高额学费是不值得的。

College is clearly still a good thing, just not at current prices.

很显然,大学依然是个好东西,只不过目前的价格不是这样。

Put another way, higher ed has been in a bubble fueled by government loans and deceptive marketing, and now that bubble is bursting. The old model of extended adolescence in which mom/dad/Uncle Sam cover five or more years of partying and sampling various majors is now beyond the means of more than half the population.

换句话说,在政府贷款和诱导营销的推动下,高等教育出现了泡沫,而现在泡沫正在破裂。有大半人口已经担负不起过去那种在大学花5年或更长时间“延长青春期”的模式了。

And the trend is just getting started, as soaring debts make it harder for future governments to subsidize higher ed and automation makes an ever-longer list of degrees pointless.

这一趋势才刚刚开始,因为不断飙升的债务使得未来政府更难补贴高等教育,而自动化令非常多的学历变得毫无意义。

The result: The gap between educational haves and have-nots will continue to widen, as formerly middle-class kids find themselves with – at best – working class prospects. And the political and financial instability that flow from inequality will define the coming decade.

结果是:随着出身曾经的“中产阶级”的孩子发现他们最好的前景是工人阶级,受教育的富人和穷人之间的差距将继续扩大,这种不平等带来的政治金融不稳定将决定接下来的十年。

 

【以下是评论部份】
SilvaDolla 
"Americans are losing faith." There...fixed the headline.

“美国人正对大学失去信心”?不,正确的标题应该是“美国人正在失去信心”。

az_patriot 
A college degree doesn't necessarily lead to a high income.  I make well over six figures and actually have no formal degree.  That's not necessarily true for all occupations and stations in life, but young people today should closely examine what they want to do and weigh it against the realities of the occupation.  

大学学位不一定能带来高收入,我收入超过6位数,但实际上没有正式学位。当然了,并非所有职业和岗位都能如此,但今天的年轻人应该仔细考虑他们究竟想做什么,并仔细权衡职业现状。

VWAndy 
A lot of the trade schools suck too.  

许多职业技校其实也很烂。

haruspicio 
If top jobs were awarded on merit then a decent education would always pay....but jobs are awarded on the old boys network....your parents and network determine what sort of job you get. For most people who are not best mates with the wealthy and well connected that means college doesn’t pay for you. Better off becoming a plumber or an electrician as no one wants to get their hands dirty these days.

如果顶级工作看的是你的能力和优点的话,人们肯定愿意支付像样的教育……然而工作看的是你的关系……你的父母和关系网决定了你能搞到什么样的工作。对于大多数人来说,他们不认得什么富人,这意味着大学教育回报寥寥。还不如当个水管工或电工,毕竟这个年代没几个人愿意干脏活累活。

Apeon 
NOthing wrong with Education-----A great deal wrong with our University system

教育没有问题——我们的大学制度有很大问题。

willymae 
I'm not losing faith, I already lost faith years ago.
Colleges are brainwashing institutes of lower learning. I almost won't hire a brainwashed college student anymore- I look for self motivated people.

我不是正在失去信心,好些年前我就已经失去信心了。大学是降低学习能力的洗脑机构。我几乎不会再雇被洗脑的大学生了——我要找的是具备自我激励能力的人。

Sky Diver 
My son taught himself to program during his sophomore year of high school. I got pemission for him to have a hour a day for self-study. He prefers to learn on his own, but without his degrees, it's unlikely he would have achieved his objective of working for a top software company. As a recent graduate, his total compensation including salary, bonus, stock, and benefits is over $250K/yr.

我儿子高二时自学了编程。我为他申请到了每天自学一小时的权限。他更喜欢自学,但如果学位的话,他不太可能实现为顶级软件公司工作的目标。作为一名应届毕业生,他的总年薪,包括工资、奖金、股票、福利超过了25万美元。

MoreFreedom 
What the article is missing, is what degree one pursues matters more.  A degree in "_____ Studies" is worthless, as well as many other degrees (puppetry, English history, history, arts, communications, public relations, etc.).  Degrees in medicine, engineering, architecture, computers, etc. that are required for getting a certain type of job are still valuable.

这篇文章忽略的一点是,更重要的是追求什么学历。“基础研究”学位毫无价值,还有许多其他领域(木偶戏、英语史、历史、艺术、通讯、公共关系等)。而在医学、工程、建筑、计算机等领域,学位对获得工作还是有用的。

David Wooten 
Education is free on the internet.  Except for science laboratory work, you can learn enough to get PhD online.  All that is needed is accreditation.

互联网教育是免费的,你还可以在网上获取博士学位,除了实验室工作。唯一需要的就是资格认证体系。

HRH Feant2  David Wooten 
I agree. The future of education is online. It is outdated to think that that everyone has to show up to a building at the same time for one very high-priced teacher when that same level of education is available, at a superior level, from the best possible teacher, online.
In person teaching and schools are doomed. I don't see them existing in ten years. Why? The US can't afford them.
The only people that will get in person teachers are the disabled and those with behavior disabilities or the very wealthy that can afford the privilege of an in-person teacher.
Bascially what I am saying is that only retarded people and psychopaths will go to a physical school Or the wealthy. Everyone else will be educated online. Cheaper. Easier. Show up for your internship or practicum, voila.

我同意。互联网是教育的未来。认为所有人必须同时呆在教室里,让一个高薪老师上课的想法已经有些过时了,因为你现在可以在网上接受同水平、甚至更高水平的教育,教你的老师可能是最好的。
学校以及面对面教学注定要失败。我认为它们未来十年内就会消失。为什么?因为美国负担不起。
唯一将会接受面对面教学的是残疾人、有行为障碍者,或是负担地起私人老师的富人。而其他人都将在网上接受教育——更便宜、更便捷。

Aubiekong 
Colleges are businesses and to keep classes filled and the money flowing they have lowered the standards so much that any moron who can sign a student loan agreement can go to college.

大学是企业,为了保持人数和资金流动,他们降低了标准,以至于任何签署学生贷款协议的白痴都可以上大学。

VWAndy 
Who wants their kids radicalized?  Come on man!  Polysci 101 from bike lock guy? Economics from the Krugster? 
You want me to pay you to teach my kid to call me a nazi?  

谁想要自己的孩子“激进化”?算了吧老铁!
你要我付钱让你教我的孩子叫我纳粹?

Krink26 
Outside of the hard sciences and a few other areas a degree is a status symbol. Even tier one universities mostly supply a supreme networking opportunity (aside from the leftist indoctrination).  After college I spent five years in the trading pits of the CBOT.  After that, in my early thirties I went and got my MBA from the top business school in Australia and graduated highest distinction. On several occasions I've stated that I would put my five years in the trading pits up against my MBA ANY DAY. People just give me a blank stare.  My chops come from real world experience in a real marketplace. Unfortunately most don't get that point.  Universities are far from learning institutions - they are cash cows.

除了自然科学其他少部分领域,学位是地位的象征。实际上,一流大学大多提供了极好的社交机会。大学毕业后,我在芝加哥交易所呆了五年。在那之后,在我三十出头的时候,我从澳大利亚的顶级商学院获得了MBA学位并获得了最高荣誉。好多次我都说,这个MBA,还比不上我在交易所五年中的任一天。
大学远非学习机构——它们只是摇钱树。

ali-ali-al-qomfri 
50% agree college isn't worth it, so too do the other 60%.

50%的人认为大学是不值得的,好吧,而60%的人认为其他教育也不值得。

didthatreallyhappen 
not only is college absurdly expensive without an adequate ROI,  Corporate is racist against white people and despises men.
In other words, get a sex change, major in GLBTQ and you are home free

不仅大学昂贵、投资回报率差劲儿。企业还对白人种族歧视,鄙视男性。
换句话说,做个变性手术,主修LGBT,你就可以坐等收钱了。

insanelysane 
In the late 1980's I graduated after 5 years at a state university.  Total bill for everything was $25k.  I got a job at a mid range company for $26k/yr.  Today that university has increased from $5k/yr to $30k/yr so 5 years would cost $150k.  A job at a mid range company is paying about $65k/yr.  College just ain't worth it.

上世纪80年代末,我在一所州立大学上了5年。所有花费加起来25000美元。我在一家一般公司找到一份年薪26000美元的工作。今天,大学费用已经从一年5000增加到一年30000,5年费用就是15万,而一般公司年薪大约是6万5。所以大学就是不值得这么多钱。

dark pools of soros  insanelysane 
65k is shit... $31/hr?? in these days of trillions printed?

这么垃圾?年薪65000?时薪31美元?在这个疯狂印钱的年代?

goose3 
People keep confusing a degree with an education.  I have lots of students who want the paper without the education.
Let's not confuse the two.  Good people, educated, with skills in analytical thinking and communication, will always be in demand.
Too many want the benefits without putting in the work.

人们常把学位和教育混为一谈。我有很多学生只想要文凭,不想接受教育。
我们不要混淆这两个概念。优秀的、受过良好教育的、善于分析思考和沟通的人,永远是受欢迎、被需求的。
大多人想要不劳而获了。

CRM114  goose3
Well, there are several points.
Firstly, HR requires the tea boy to have a BA in Business Admin these days. The kids only want the piece of paper because the job only requires a piece of paper, not the skills.
Secondly, in many cases "good people" are only in demand for laughable wages, and only if they are prepared to work like slaves. This is in direct conflict with graduate skills which both companies and society say are 'valued', but in any physical sense, aren't valued.
Thirdly, there are many amount of fuckwits earning big bucks for no apparent reason.

嗯,我想指出几点:
首先,如今的日子,HR要求倒茶的也得有工商管理学士学位。之所以孩子们只想要那一直文凭,是因为这份工作只需要文凭,而不是技能。
第二,在许多情况下,只有“优秀的人”准备好像奴隶一样工作、接受可笑的薪水时,他们才是“受欢迎、被需求”的。企业和社会嘴上说“重视”毕业生的实际技能,然而实际上看不到哪里有重视。
第三,有太多白痴毫无理由地赚大钱。

pliny the longer 
WHAT IF well meaning but misguided parents instead of shelling out $100K for college, instead bought a fixer upper POS house for their kid at graduation.  Then told them, learn how to fix this up and make it someplace a decent woman would want to live, and watch your young men go. they'd come out of it with an education, a decent house and some skills.  and no debt. 

假如那些善意却误入歧途的父母没有花10万美元支付大学费用,而是在孩子高中毕业时给他们买幢破房。然后告诉他们,学着修好这个房子,让它成为一个体面的女人想要生活的地方。看着吧,他们最后会获得教育、一些技能和一幢漂亮的房子。关键是没有债务。

caconhma  tripletail 
I have graduate degrees in Physics/Electrical Engineering and Economics. I spent almost 10 years in very good universities.
I did not do too bad. 10 years after graduation, I became a program manager for large programs. After winning a large contract, my company sent me to MIT for a 3-week course for mid-level managers. At the first lecture, a professor told us: management is 50% of knowledge/skills and 50% is art and founded on your own successes self confidence.
Make long story short:
Students spend too much time at universities. 
Bachelor degrees are quite adequate for 87% of students in their future life.  4 years studies must be cut to 2.5-3 years.
Masters degrees are quite adequate for 10% of students in their future life.
PhD is necessary almost exclusively for 3% of students for staying and teaching at universities.
Too few people are using "common sense"
No more than 5% are capable of analyzing data and making good decisions.
I very seldom approved hiring people with PhD since the majority of them are too specialized.
There is no need for university degrees where it is not necessary: the majority of manual and service jobs. IMHO, the Trump University was a fraud teaching students how to screw your customers.
Specialist is not a person who has university degrees and many publications but one who can make things happen.
我有电子工程和经济学硕士学位。我在一所很好的大学上了将近10年。
之后我混得不错。毕业10年后,我成了一个大型项目的项目经理。在赢得一份大合同后,公司派我去麻省理工学院参加一个为期3周的中层经理培训。在第一节课上,一位教授告诉我们:管理学一半是知识、技能,一半是艺术,它建立在对成功的自信上。
长话短说:
学生在大学花太多时间了。对87%的学生来说,本科学历对他们的未来生活足够了。4年的学习必须减少到2.5 - 3年。
硕士学位适合于10%的学生。
博士学位仅仅对于那3%想要留校学生是必须的。
使用“常识”(自学常识)的人太少了。
不超过5%的人有能力分析数据并做出正确决定。
我不认可雇用有博士学位的人,因为他们大多数都太专业了。
许多工作根本不需要大学学位:例如大部分体力和服务工作。
专家不是一个拥有大学学位和许多出版物的人,而是一个干成事的人。

                     

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