外国网民评论:没有实战的中国士兵怎么获得美国士兵那样的“实战经验”? [美国知乎]

原文地址:https://www.quora.com/How-can-Chinese-soldiers-obtain-Actual-Combat-Experience-like-American-soldiers-without-fighting-in-a-real-warFighting an actual w

原文地址:https://www.quora.com/How-can-Chinese-soldiers-obtain-Actual-Combat-Experience-like-American-soldiers-without-fighting-in-a-real-war


Fighting an actual war is a good way to know the shortcomings of own’s military strength identifying areas of weakness and formulating battle strategies for future. What should Chinese military do to improve their battle preparedness?


实战化是了解自身军事实力的弱点,找出薄弱环节,制定未来作战战略的好方法。中国军队应该做些什么来提高他们的战斗准备?



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外国网民评论:

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Ben Kelley Strong interest in geopolitics and defence

Written Oct 13

Firstly fighting a war can be useful for learning but its a hard way to get lessons. It is touching the stove to find out its hot. War also means many many different things there are even different types of wars and as the US is finding having experience in one type may mean you are completely unprepared for another type and you shouldn’t have to go to war to find that out.


首先我们可以在战争中学习,然而这样的代价太大。这就像通过触摸火炉来判断它是否是热的。战争包含了千万种变化,有千万种形式。美国在某一种形式的战争中获得了足够的经验也可能意味着在另一种形式的战争中毫无防备。通过打一场战争来确认这点是不应该的。


QQ截图20170120171822.jpg


Spectrum of Military Ops - This isn’t the best graph the Marines have a much better one with literally maybe 100 different types of operations (and they leave off the nuclear stuff). But it illustrates the concept. Also ignore the slogans they are of no importance.


军事行动的图表 - 这不是最恰当的图表----海军陆战队的图表会好的多,因为他们可能有100种行动(不包括关于核武器的)----但它能表明这种概念。忽略掉上面的标语,它们不重要。


Training and exercises is only one aspect. Domestic and international humanitarian assistance is another. Environmental operations are another. Peace keeping is another. As the US knows winning a war can be easy and done in days. Keeping the peace can be nearly impossible and take decades with no effect.


训练和军演只是一个方面。国内外的人道主义救援是另一方面。国际局势的行动是一方面,维和是一方面。就如美国所知道的那样,赢得战争只要几天,但维持和平则几乎不可能,即使花费几十年也徒劳无功。


One thing China is quickly learning is solving problems is hard and peace keeping is hard. China is currently up to their eyeballs in the Sudan. Depending on who you talk to there could be a few thousand Chinese troops to around a million (China puts '700000 troops' on Sudan alx). That may sound like a lot but the Sudan is in all sorts of trouble and its quite likely that a million personell are not enough.


中国学到的经验是,解决问题是艰难的,维持和平是艰难的。中国目前在苏丹已经完全崛起。根据你所谈话的对象,中国在苏丹的军力部署在几千人到百万人之间(中国单单在苏丹就投放了70万军队)。这可能听起来很多,但苏丹有各种各样的麻烦,很可能100万人根本不够。


Why China is South Sudan’s best hope


为什么中国是南苏丹最大的希望


Why the Stakes Are So High for China in South Sudan


为什么中国在南苏丹的风险如此之高


China reacts to the death of two peacekeepers in South Sudan with grief and rage


中国对两名维和人员在南苏丹的牺牲作出悲痛和愤怒的反应


The Sudan is a warzone/genocide park/hell hole. China has invested a lot in the Sudan and the Sudan has a lot of oil. But not even the amount of Oil the Sudan has could tempt the US to getting involved it literally ran away from that.


苏丹是个战乱区/种族灭绝地/地狱。苏丹石油丰富,中国已经在苏丹做了很多投资。但是石油再多,美国都不愿意插手这个地区,美国差不多是远远逃开。


So China has invested billions into a place that may very well continue to be a mess. The US actually is very positive in supporting China in the Sudan and would love to see China take leadership and try to solve some of the issues.


所以中国在苏丹投资了数十亿,而那儿局面混乱且可能一直保持如此。实际上,美国对中国投资苏丹持积极的支持态度,而且愿意看到中国领头尝试解决一些问题。


What China hopes to achieve with first peacekeeping mission - BBC News


中国的首个维和任务想要实现什么目标?--BBC新闻


So its through missions like this through join military exercises such as the joint USMC Australian Army and PLA exercise held in Australia. While its small steps activities like this help build direct connections solve communication issues help all sides understand command and common codes of conduct etc.


所以通过这些维和任务以及联合军演,如参与在澳大利亚举行的美国海军陆战队,澳大利亚军方,和中国人民解放军联合演习。像这样的小举措,可以帮助建立直接的联系,解决交流问题,有助于各方了解指令和共同的行为规范。


From these type of activities you could easy see how all three nations might work together or alongside for a humanitarian mission in the future within the region.

China has also got into RIMPAC in a big way this year (as it did in 2014).

With 5 Ships and 1200 Personnel China Expands RIMPAC 2016 Naval Delegation

So China does appear to be taking serious steps in improving its military readiness. While this is still different from war experience it is far more relevant as its highly likely Chinese forces will meet and have to work alongside US and Australian and other allied forces in the future.


通过诸如此类活动,你不难看出未来这三个国家将如何携手并肩在该地区执行人道主义任务。

与2014年一样,中国今年也以庞大阵容参与了环太平洋军演。

他们扩充了参加2016环太军演的海军代表团规模,一共派出了5艘军舰和1200名人员。

因此,中国看来确实是在严肃认真地提高其军事战备程度。

尽管这与实战经验仍然有所不同,但这对他们来说更有意义,

因为将来中国军队很有可能和美国、澳大利亚以及其他盟国军队相遇,并与他们并肩合作。

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Timothy Soh Interrupted

upxed Aug 19

Okay I'm going to say this. Information is scarce on the north western front but the Chinese-Myanmar border has online sources.


好吧,我想说的是,西北前线的信息很匮乏,但中-缅边境有在线资源。


The Chinese security forces (the People's Armed Police not the territorial army) have frequent clashes at the border with illegal immigrants or insurgents. There are scant details on this but I heard about this talking to Hui Chinese travellers in Thailand.


中国武警部队(即中国人民武装警察部队,不是区域陆军)在边境频繁与非法移民和叛乱分子发生冲突。相关细节描述很少,我是同来泰国旅游的中国回民聊天后知道的。


Apparently the border between the -stan countries and China often see trespassers entering into China (yes it's fenced up). Some of them are herders crossing boundaries somehow. Others are Islamist militants entering China.


显然,在中亚的“斯坦”国家和中国的边境总是有非法入境者进入中国(是的,有栅栏)。他们中有些是牧民,不知怎的跨越了边境。其他进入中国的是伊斯兰激进分子。


The Men and Women Who Fight China's 'Anti-Terrorist' War <- Read this.


为中国“反恐”战而斗争的战士们<-读读这篇文章吧。


From another Foreign Policy report Chinese security forces see an increase in militants despite arresting many. Apparently they stream in through broken fences. Every now and then they will cause trouble China uses flamethrower to hunt Xinjiang 'terrorists' | The Japan Times


据另一则《对外政策》报道,尽管中国武装部队逮捕了很多激进分子,这个群体的人数仍在增长。显然他们是从那些残破的栅栏偷溜入境的。他们时不时会出来捣乱制造麻烦,中方采取喷火器抓捕新疆“恐怖分子“。| 日本时报


The People's Armed Police is responsible for border security. Because of the border fights many of these police officers have more combat experience than your regular PLA soldiers.


人民武装警察负责边境安全。由于边境战斗,许多这些武警官兵比正规解放军士兵有更多的战斗经验。


I am not sure if the PLA is capitalising on this opportunity to have regimental volunteers rotate on such border details in order to gain operational experience.


我不知道解放军是否利用这样的机会使团军志愿者轮换到这种边界,以获得实践经验。


Some may think that mere border bandits or insurgents may not be equal to a conventional foe. But an insurgency can test logistics as we found out.


有些人可能认为纯粹的边界匪徒或叛乱分子可能不等于传统的敌人。但是叛乱者可以测试我们所能看到的后勤能力。


How do you move logistics towards an area of conflict that is constantly shifting? It isn't like a frontline that moves back and forth in a single direction. Insurgents (small units) can appear from different directions.


如何将物资运送到不断变化的冲突地区?它不像前线在单一方向上来回移动。叛乱分子(小单位)可以从不同的方向出现。


Don't forget how much blood the Chechnyan rebels cost the Russians or how Boko Haram could drive Nigeria's military away. Recall that he US itself has been fighting a Low Intensity Conflict for a while now.


不要忘记车臣叛军对俄罗斯造成多少流血,或者博科圣地组织如何推动尼日利亚的军事行动。回想一下,美国本身已经进行一场低强度冲突的战斗一段时间了。


Yes there isn't space for the PLA navy to play a role in the north west. However the air force has a pretty vital role especially the use of helicopters to move troops to checkmate insurgents.


是的,中国海军没有在西北部发挥作用的空间。然而,空军起非常重要的作用,特别是使用直升机运输部队到叛乱分子暴动的地方。


Insurgency isn't a small matter and as we learned it can push your army's operational ability to the brink.


叛乱不是一件小事,因为我们知道它可以把你的军队的作战能力发挥到极致。


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Cheng Cheng Chinese

Written Aug 1

They can’t that’s a very expensive experience to acquire.

Here’s a joke in China:

Question: Why we still do this Soviet style military parade on Tian’anmen square every tens years while United States did none?

Answer: As a matter of fact they do but not on the square not every ten years instead they do it every single year on the battlefield all over the world.

I mean no offense to U.S armed force and veterans I respect their sacrifice to their country as I respect ours. US armed forces have enormous realistic combat experience over PLA on every level but the real question is how much does it cost to obtain “actual combat experience” and how much experience is enough to prepare the next war.

U.S. armed force has been proven to be very effective in limited warfares and regional conflicts since first gulf war but never contested in a major maritime warfare. No one knows what a modern maritime warfare looks like how anti-ship missiles electronics satellites plays when contested by comparable counterparts what’s the dogfight of stealth fighter jets looks like (or will there be dogfights?) etc.


中国不能像美国这样做,因为这样获取实战经验的代价太过高昂。

中国有这么一个笑话:

问:为什么我们每十年都要在天安门广场上举行这种苏联式的大阅兵,而美国就不这样做?

答:事实上美国也举行阅兵,但不在广场上,也不是每十年一次,而是每年都在全世界各地的战场上举行。

我无意冒犯美国军队以及退伍军人,我尊重他们为自己国家所付出的牺牲,如同尊重我们国家的军人一样。

相较于中国人民解放军,美国军队在各个层面都拥有大量的实战经验。

但真正的问题在于,获得所谓的“实战经验”需要付出多大的代价,以及多少实战经验才足以应对下一场战争。

自从第一次海湾战争以来,美军在有限战争和地区冲突中已被证明是十分高效的,但他们从未在一场大规模海战中与人较量过。

没人清楚一场现代海战会是什么样的,不知道反舰导弹、电子设备、卫星在与几乎旗鼓相当的对手较量时的实战表现会如何,

也不知道隐形战机之间的近距格斗会是什么样的(甚至不知道会不会发生近距格斗),这些都不清楚。


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Laurance Kenneth Robinson British Army (TA) 2003-2007

Written Jul 31

Laurance Kenneth Robinson英国陆军(TA)2003-2007

Actual combat experience is only gained during actual combat.


实战经验只有在实战中才能获得。


Even realistic exercises have that element of 'fakeness' to it that will blunt the training. Whilst rigorous exercises using live ammo laser systems etc. will help show up faults in your organization they will never replace the complete chaos that ensues during actual combat.


即使是实际的演习也有“造假”的元素,这会削弱训练。虽然使用实弹激光系统等进行严格的练习将有助于发现你的组织中的错误,但是他们永远不能替代实际战斗中所发生的完全混乱。


Also China has been taking part in UN peacekeeping operations. These operations help especially when deploying larger numbers like the 700-strong battalion recently deployed to South Sudan. These operations help show up flaws in logistics and in organizations or certain formations. They can also be invaluable in creating a well versed cadre of NCOs and Officers.


中国也参加了联合国维和行动。这些行动特别有助于部署更多的数量,如最近部署到南苏丹的700人的一个营。这些操作有助于展现后勤和组织或某些布局形势。这样打造出精通熟练的士官和军官干部是非常宝贵的。


I hope this helps.


希望这能有所帮助。


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Mark Oakley US Army Engineer Officer with enlisted experience.

Written Jul 31


Mark Oakley 具有丰富经验的美国陆军工程师。


To gain combat experience you must be in combat. It’s that simple. While you can work to make training as realistic as possible it is impossible to recreate the chaos and visceral response that comes with combat.


要获得战斗经验,你必须去战斗。就是这么简单。虽然你可以努力使训练尽可能逼近真实,但是不可能完全重现战斗带来的混乱和内心反应。


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